Brown and Davis

Gordon Brown recently wrote to David Davis to say this:

Dear David

As you know, Prime Ministers are available once a week at Question Time to debate all the issues of the day, and I was disappointed that you chose to step down as a Member of Parliament in advance of Question Time on Wednesday, 11 June rather than coming to the House to debate with me the issues around the use of CCTV and DNA evidence, and the measures we have taken to protect our national security.

Nevertheless, the leader of your party has the opportunity each week to ask six questions on those issues that caused you to leave his Shadow Cabinet. He has had two such opportunities to date, but he has yet to ask any such question. He has two further opportunities to raise these issues before the 'by-election' on July 10th, and I am sure that if he shares your strong feelings about them, he will not duck those opportunities.

Gordon Brown

David Davis has replied, with a masterful letter:

Dear Gordon,

Thank you for your letter of 26 June. This is the second time you have responded to me directly, since my resignation from the House of Commons in protest at your relentless assault on British liberty.

First, you gave a speech on 17 June at the IPPR, a favoured Labour think-tank, hardly an environment that allows for the vigorous and open debate we so sorely need. Now, you insist that any questions I wish to ask on this vital national issue be raised within the narrow confines of Prime Ministers Questions, where you have developed the novel practice of asking - rather than answering- the questions.

I note from your speech on 17 June that you genuinely believe in the positions you have taken and stand behind the sustained erosion on British liberty, which regrettably means that the country must expect more to come in the future. Equally, it is deeply disturbing how ill-informed you are about the basic effectiveness of your security policies - from 42 days, ID cards and the DNA database, through to the ineffectual deployment of CCTV at immense cost to the taxpayer.

We need a proper national debate on these important matters - not just set piece speeches to carefully choreographed audiences or the weekly one-liners you deploy at PMQs. If you were serious about debating these important issues, you should have put up a candidate or at the very least allowed your Ministers to debate publicly with me. Having cowered from both options, it is a bit rich to snipe from the sidelines in a serious debate that will proceed with or without you. Even at this late stage, I would be only too willing to adjust my schedule to debate you or any Cabinet Minister in public, if you feel able to relax the restrictions currently in place.

Yours sincerely,

David Davis

In short, Brown has said "You lost an opportunity to 'debate', but you should have got more support, nah nah ne nah nah." and Davis is saying "Anytime, Any place, Anywhere - bring it on".

Pots and Kettles

A great BBC 'Have Your Say' Comment from John McKay:

"The Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, has described Mr Davis's move as a 'stunt that has become a farce'."

If I might draw M'Lud's attention  to the case of Pot versus Kettle...?

Well done.

David Davis has been interviewed for the 'Today' programme. Humphreys is interviewing as a politico - Davis is responding on the issues.

"If the Labour party chooses not to defend their own policies on this... they're gonna show that they're ashamed of their own policies... if it comes down to it and they don't run then I will think that's just another piece of cowardice by Gordon Brown.... but there will be a debate, I promise you, there will be a debate

This 'stunt' has now elevated Davis above Boris Johnson as 'Favourite Tory'.

Please direct comments to this post.

Have Your Say on Davis

I've browsed through the most recommended comments at the Beeb. Several pages of comments without one recommended comment (so far) being critical of Davis. (If you haven't seen his speech yet, it's really worth a look). This comment summed it up, quoting one of the rare (less popular) anti-DD posts:

What is the point of posting comments to the BBC when they are biased. I can only see comments from people who agree with David Davis! Typical BBC! ...

J L Graham, Frimley, Surrey.

Didn't you actually consider it might be because the majority of posters actually agree with David Davis????

Josh Rogan, United Kingdom.

The move may well be a stunt, but it's a stunt that'll keep the spotlight on some important issues for quite some time. Well done DD.

Update: The BBC has a roundup of the press today. Unsurprisingly the Murdoch press are quite negative, other press is applauding the reasons for his stance, but are suggesting that it could backfire by causing his party embarrassment. Personally, I'm really pleased that someone is putting this front and centre as an important issue and making the principled case.

Understandably, given that they'd lose, Labour look like they'll refuse to fight the election. Cowards. They probably would lose anyway in that seat, but if they really have the courage of their convictions, let's have the general election which we should have had last year. No? Didn't think so. Cowards.

Please direct any comments to this post.

David Davis Speech

This is a phenomenal speech, which sums up just how  this government has been eating away at our historic libertarian legal system. The speech has been placed on youtube.

There are only two ways this could be more spectacular.

  1. If it were Cameron
  2. If it were someone in a marginal seat.

Yes, this is a stunt, but it's a fine one - and it kicked off with a great speech - one that I hope doesn't get ripped to shreds by the time it's disseminated in the News at Ten and in tomorrow's papers.

Please direct any comments to this post.

Update: The Lib Dems, recognising this is a protest on an issue they wish to support, are not fielding a candidate. This has precedents, they did not field a candidate in the election against the Hamiltons. Quite the right decision - though it does highlight the need for Single Transferable Vote instead of First Past the Post. They have said that in a general election they would fight for this constituency.

David Davis: Man of Principle

David Davis has resigned from the commons to force a by-election in which he'll stand. He will fight the campaign based on his opposition to the 42 days detention without charge and the slow erosion of civil liberties seen under this government.

BBC Political Editor Nick Robinson said it was an extraordinary move which was almost without precedent in British politics.

True, it's an MP taking a stand on principle (cynical, moi?)

Labour MP Denis MacShane said he was sure Mr Davis would win the by-election but added "I think this will be seen as a stunt" which showed the Conservatives were "utterly unfit" for government.

Thus spake a man who is avoiding the argument on the issue.

In his resignation statement, he said he feared 42 days was just the beginning and next "we'll next see 56 days, 70 days, 90 days."

But, he added: "In truth, 42 days is just one - perhaps the most salient example - of the insidious, surreptitious and relentless erosion of fundamental British freedoms."

He listed the growth of the "database state," government "snooping" ID cards, the erosion of jury trials and other issues.

"This cannot go on. It must be stopped and for that reason today I feel it is incumbent on me to make a stand," said Mr Davis.

"At least my electorate and the nation as a whole will have had the opportunity to debate and consider one of the most fundamental issues of our day - the ever intrusive power of the state into our lives, the loss of privacy, the loss of freedom and the steady attrition undermining the rule of law," he said

Hear, Hear!

Good luck DD - I do hope that it's a landslide (and can't be argued that it's just the core vote of a safe seat).

This could only be more dramatic if it had been Cameron.

Update: The speech is online (it's a great speech).


  • Iain Dale
  • Labour@Home (who seem be arguing on the party lines, not the issue)
  • It might be a publicity stunt, hopisen, but it's one that we need with this nasty government.
  • e8voice (Davis has balls and they're in the air)

Electoral Reform in the UK

Democracy isn't Deskbound Make Votes Count has re-branded their campaign, and produced an action plan, which I reproduce below:

Continue on to the MVC WebsiteView the Campaign Launch Photos

6 Things you can do
1. Petition the Prime Minister. Sign our petition to Gordon Brown

2. Pledge to a Consultation. Sign the pledge and show people's willingness to be consulted

3. Write to your MP. Ask them to forward your comments to the Minister

4. Contact your nearest PR Politican. Enlist the support of your MEPs/AMs/MSPs

5. Have your say: Governance of Britain. Tell the Ministry of Justice that voting systems matter

6. Donate to the Campaign. Help us maximise what we can achieve

If you would like to post this to your website, see the previous post for the code.

Letter to Shadow Home Secretary on ID Cards

I've just written to David Davies MP, let's see what response he gives.

Mr. David Davies, MP
House of Commons

Thursday, 28 October 2004

Dear Mr. Davies,

With regard to ID cards, on the BBC website you say:

'"If these criteria can be met without sacrificing civil liberties they should be introduced soon - not in 10 years time. The terrorist threat is real and is here today."'

This is merely echoing the government's line without much critical reasoning. Yet as far as I know not ONCE has anyone said exactly how the ID card will help fight terrorism. The Madrid bombers and the IRA all were in the country legally. The spectre of terrorism is a straw man argument as it rather assumes that we know in advance who the terrorists are.

It has also been said that the ID card will help prevent benefit frauds - if this is the case, why does it not pay for itself?

It has no added benefit to the individual. It won't do what it claims to do. In effect, it is an extra tax - one which the conservatives, as the current opposition, and a party which claims to value a lower tax economy, should be opposing.

The idea seems one that is fraught with difficulties. The UK government does not have a good history of implementing large secure systems. Witness the passports debacle of a few years ago. With one über-database there will be much difficulty when the inevitable mistakes happen. If, as will happen, someone is labelled as a convicted paedophile, it will be incredibly difficult to undo this – the authoritative database says it is so, therefore it must be true.

ID cards are also liable to lead to a false sense of security, which can be more dangerous than no security at all.

Bruce Schneier, a well known and respected security consultant based in the US, recently wrote cogently for United Press International about security issues relevant to the World Series: "ID checks don't make sense. Everyone has an ID. Even the 9/11 terrorists had IDs. What we want is to somehow check intention; is the person going to do something bad? But we can't do that, so we check IDs instead. It's a complete waste of time and money, and does absolutely nothing to make us safer".

I would strongly suggest that you read the rest of this article.

There has been no obvious reasoned response by either government or opposition to the points raised at: and elsewhere, such as by liberty (director of liberty: Shami Chakrabarti )

The only argument I've heard for ID cards that is hard to refute is "If you have nothing to hide…", and this is hard to refute simply because it is tough to know where to start!

Along with many other topics, this issue makes the conservatives look more and more irrelevant at the moment. Why? They simply seem to be rubber stamping any half thought out idea of this government, such as the rolling use of the anti terror legislation against protestors.

I would dearly like to know, with concrete reasoning, why the conservatives seem to be supporting these proposals.

Yours Sincerely